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Botulism injections- Were these investigational too?

 
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RobertW of Alabama
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:46 pm    Post subject: Botulism injections- Were these investigational too? Reply with quote

Botulism injections were given stateside. I know that I received them at Ft Campbell. Are they possibly causing health problems? Should they have required consent?

Thanks,
Robert
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RobertW of Alabama
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Gary M -you acutually answered this for me earlier Reply with quote

"(1) Why was Vaccine A - a licensed vaccine - a secret, but not Botox, which was experimental?"

Were we a part of the Botox approval process? or were we legitimately immunized aganist a real Botulism threat?

Hope this is not too much re-hash or off subject-
Thanks
Robert
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Gary M - Author
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply to RobertW of Alabama, RE: Botulinum Toxoid injections Reply with quote

Dear RobertW: The Army's pentavalent Botulinum toxoid was, and still is, an investigational new drug, requiring informed consent. At the time of the Gulf War, the Army sought a waiver of informed consent for this shot, but in the end, it elected to administer the shot with informed consent only. At least that's how it was supposed to have been given.

In theater, it was entered into WHO shot records as VAC-B.

It is possible, though I have no proof of this, that the pentavalent Botulinum toxoid was also spiked with an oil adjuvant to speed the immune response to it.

U.S. intelligence suspected Iraq was developing botulinum toxin as a weapon. The U.S. knew Iraq had the toxin-producing agent, Clostridium botulinum, because a U.S. company sold it to Iraq.

U.S. military personnel in the first Gulf War were supposed to have been given the licensed Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed (aka BioThrax). It was given as a "SECRET" immunization, ostensibly, to conceal the fact from the enemy that U.S. forces had been immunized against it. The argument being that had the Iraqis known that U.S. forces were immunized against anthrax, they might have switched to another BW agent.

The obvious flaw in that rationale (assuming that it was the real reason for keeping the anthrax immunizations a secret) was the underlying assumption that knowing about the immunizations would have discouraged an anthrax attack. If knowledge of the immunizations would have deterred an anthrax attack, why not advertise it then?

The less obvious flaw the time to immunity with the vaccine - six months after the first shot with the U.S. anthrax vaccine; eight months with the British version. It was believed a reasonable degree of immunity was achieved with the licensed U.S. vaccine after the third or fourth shot,; the same was true for the British vaccine. So what was the point of only giving troops one shot? Two, maximum? Commencing wide-scale anthrax vaccination less than two weeks before the war started, in theory, would have provided little or no immunity.

So what was the point of immunizing troops against anthrax unless you had a way of accelerating the immune response to the vaccine? The British clearly understood this. In 1996 or 1997, I believe, they admitted to using an adjuvant, pertussis vaccine, to speed the immune response to their anthrax vaccine (they have yet to admit to using squalene as an adjuvant, though British Gulf War veterans have tesed positive for the antibodies).

So let's review the logic of the official story. The U.S. made a licensed vaccine, anthrax, a secret, but it made no secret about giving troops an experimental vaccine, Botulinum toxoid. By commencing anthrax immunizations in January 1991, immunity could have been expected, according to thinking at the time, in June (the war was over at the end of February). And the anthrax immunizations were kept a secret because knowledge of the immunizations could have deterred an anthrax attack.

Sincerely,
Gary Matsumoto
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LT. Barnes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:10 am    Post subject: Botulinum toxoid Given Port Dammam S.A. 01-15-01 Reply with quote

I was given the Botulinum toxoid on the 14 or 15th of January 1991 at the Port Of Dammam S.A. It was entered into my shot record by our USN corpsman as eith anthranx I, or anthrax II, we wer advised that one of the shots was for Botulinum toxoid.
The Army gave the shots I doubt if our corpsman even knew that it was for Botulinum toxoid, as a staff officer I was aware though.
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RobertW of Alabama
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:55 pm    Post subject: Thanks- Reply with quote

Thanks so much, Gary for your detailed answer.

HOOAH
Robert W of Alabama
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