The Perseus Books Group Message Boards Forum Index The Perseus Books Group Message Boards
Book discussion forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Support our troops
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Perseus Books Group Message Boards Forum Index -> Vaccine-A
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
just one person
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply to angry supporter. Reply with quote

To the men and women like myself who are based at Dover and have received the vaccine, the quest to bring to light whether or not we have been harmed, whether accidental or not, is not a sign of ill-support. The fact that others like Mr. Matsumoto care enough to fight a cause that we cannot is support in itself. We personally know and have worked with the people mentioned in this book. They are our family and friends and we have seen these unexplainable illnesses we can only assume what the underlying cause is. The best show of support for our Nation's troops is to support the fight for the complete truth, no matter what comes of it. And on the otherhand, we, servicemen and women, are not unpatriotic for wanting to know these answers. We love this Nation an it's Government and continue to devotedly serve our Country for this reason. This fight is not against the government. It is against those who have possibly made terrible decisions that have affected the health of thousands of troops and they, themselves, hide under the protection our government provides them. People make mistakes and in a matter this important to us, if a mistake was made we want admittance. It may be too late for us but we want to make sure something like this never happen's again. Thank you for your support Mr. Matsumoto.
Back to top
matthew
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: get informed and take everything with a grain of salt... Reply with quote

I am a marine and have fought in 2 middle eastern wars already. I agree that in quite a few years past there had been experimental drugs passed on to our troops. However proceedure and ethics in the military community is closer to "politically correct" as it can get.
I have been injected with the anthrax vaccine 4 times already. As with any vaccine or medical shot we receive, we are given classes and seminars with detailed information by military/independant studies: risks, side effects, history, drug manufacturer(s) and how they pertain to us individually and as a whole for the mission/environment at-hand (and all with pictures and graphs for those who actually need to have it spelled out and colorized for them). All of this is presented to us by medical professionals with the opportunity to ask questions of ANY kind and receive a response that can be formally written into our personal medical histories.
So the american government can treat it's most highly trained fighting force IN THE WORLD like lab rats and expect it to guarantee the results it is known to produce?
Don't insult my intelligence or that of the american people just to put money in your pocket and to make a name for yourself.
Ps. Out of courtesy and ettiquete, please don't call marines soldiers - we're marines.
Back to top
rocket
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:11 am    Post subject: DOD'S LIL SHOPPE OF HORROS Reply with quote

Here's a post I made over at Dean's World that has a discussion thread on the pharma industry that includes some discussions on
Matsumoto's book

Vaccine-A by Gary Matsumoto

If you're interested in the pharma industry, the DOD's Lil Shoppe of Horrors, the abandonment of medical ethics by the NIH, and a waste of your money, check out this barn burner debate about to kick off over at Winds of Change.

Link Here

As in any war strategy game, it is paramount to protect your base:

“All your base belong to us”

This is courtesy of Joe Katzman a brave sole and a true American patriot blogger that is hosting this discussion that the MSM so far has been too scared to touch. Please don't throw eggs at Joe, he's just host.

Joe's name could be in lites like Powerline and LGF by this time next year if this story breaks. Drop some coins in his tin cup when you visit.

This is a potentially a good hit on the administration and the liberal MSM is avoiding it like the plague. Cowards! Never around when you need them - Go figure!

Sitting on this story does no one any good. Sources say MSNBC has a program in the can but held it on the advice of sources in the DOD.

This is a story whether true or not, the American people need to hear and decide for themselves what is the truth or fiction.

This is a discussion on Gary Matsumoto's new book, "Vaccine-A." Matusmoto is reporting the DOD's anthrax vaccine is now forensically linked to Gulf War Syndrome.

Help other bloggers fact check this book. If what he's reported is true then we've got real trouble right here in River City with a capital "T" and that stands for "T-Cells."

HSPIG has been tracking this story for several weeks. The science and facts as reported appear credible at first blush.

That is why HSPIG is promoting this debate in the Blogosphere. HSPIG is challenging the Blogos to fact check and/or shred this book. As in Rathergate the Blogos can do this like no other can in an apolitical manner.

Envision a growing collective neuro net of dendritic synapse connections with vast parallel processing power cut loose on a question (distribution computing e.g. SETI). The power and politics of blogs - "Blessed be for the Internet and the Blogosphere."

Dan Drezner are you listening? The Blogos is about to come on line again. This would be a good time to monitor this as an excellent poli sci research project.

HSPIG supports the WOT and believes this administration's message is the right one our enemy needs to hear. No messages of appeasement will work. We must crush this flawed and evil ideology of Islamofascism that kills innocents in it's cult like quest. This failed ideology must be wiped from the face of the earth like others have been in the past that do not value the free will of men and women and other universal rights as humans. We must stay the course for this is a war we must not lose.

But nevertheless there may be some mid-level DOD wonks in the vac shoppe, with the support of the NIH, and the pharma industry that mucked up and, "screwed the pooch," while our leaders were distracted fighting this war.

If this is true then this has put our men and women in uniform at considerable risk. This needs to be excised as quickly as possible so it does not pull or distract resources away from the war effort.

Yes, cost benefit analysis and risk assessments are necessary but when they are understated to the general officers, these officers' decisions are then based on faulty information. General officers once aware must take action. This appears to be a systemic organizational flaw where the normal checks of public health medical ethics are no longer effective and/or subverted.

A classic case of the foxes been left guarding the hen house. Well, the chickens have all been eaten or flown the coop.

Immediate action is necessary as this has risen to the level, it is impairing/hindering the mission.

HSPIG's mission is to cover the backs of our men and women while they are taking this war to the enemy. Unfortunately they may have unwittingly participated in vaccine trials as guinea pigs. Further because of mil regs they have no say and must take the vaccines without questions.

Seriously what is at stake is that this soon may spill over into vaccines needed to protect us from the scourges of man and endanger the lives of your children and their children.

News at 11 - this will knock your socks off!


Ron Wright, Moderator
HSPIG Forums Site
www.hsig.org
Back to top
Gary M - Author
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply to Matthew, RE: Grains of Salt Reply with quote

Dear Matthew: About six years ago, I made a name for myself by just starting this investigation. That name is "Mud."

Sincerely,
Gary Matsumoto
Back to top
Gary M - Author
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:12 pm    Post subject: Message to All, Re: "Grains of Salt." Reply with quote

To All:

I am pleased to hear about Matthew's vaccination experience, but so startled by it that I think it bears repeating here:

Quote:
MATTHEW: "I have been injected with the anthrax vaccine 4 times already. As with any vaccine or medical shot we receive, we are given classes and seminars with detailed information by military/independant studies: risks, side effects, history, drug manufacturer(s) and how they pertain to us individually and as a whole for the mission/environment at-hand (and all with pictures and graphs for those who actually need to have it spelled out and colorized for them). All of this is presented to us by medical professionals with the opportunity to ask questions of ANY kind and receive a response that can be formally written into our personal medical histories."


By most accounts from service members, Matthew's experience is not only inconsistent with that of most service members (and out-of-sync with both U.S. and British Gulf War I records on BW vaccinations), it raises questions about why Matthew (and presumably his entire unit) got "classes and seminars" on anthrax vaccine.

Service members get tons of shots: "line up, and roll 'em up ... or drop trou." If Matthew and his fellow jarheads got classes and seminars for every shot they got, they might never have gotten out of boot camp.

Did they get "classes and seminars" for the flu shot? How about for hepatitis B? Or diphtheria and tetanus toxoids? Gammglobulin?

In response to Matthew's protest that it's illogical that "the american government can treat it's most highly trained fighting force IN THE WORLD like lab rats," I have two "grains of salt" for him and his fellow jarheads, and especially those of you have served our country proudly in two Gulf wars.

The first grain of salt is from a declassified Desert Shield document issued by the United States Army Medical Research and Development Command on 7 Dec 1990:

Quote:
"Over the past 20 years, the USAMRDC has switched its emphasis from diseases of mobilization (i.e. vaccines to prevent meningococcal disease) to diseases of deployment (i.e. vaccines to prevent wound sepsis). However, a major impediment to the determination of product efficacy has been the lack of a true deployment scenario. Thus, we have the research requirement of determining true efficacy during times of actual deployment." [Italics and highlighting mine]


Here's the second grain. It's from a Department of Defense Directive issued in 2002, prior to Gulf War II:

Quote:
""Consistent with 10 U.S.C. 980(b) (reference (b)), the requirement for prior informed consent under paragraphs 4.2 or 4.2.1. may be waived by the Head of a DoD component with respect to a specific research project to advance the development of a medical product necessary to the Armed Forces if the research project may directly benefit the subject and is carried out in accordance with all other applicable laws and regulations, including 21 CFR 50.24 (reference (j))." [Italics and highlighting mine]


21 CFR 50.24 is the federal regulation that explains when informed consent can be waived for giving troops INDs (investigational new drugs).

So I've got three questions for Matthew or any other service member who thinks the notion that he/she could be a test subject in a medical experiment without their express permission is just preposterous:

1. If DoD doesn't experiment on troops in combat, then why write memos and pass regulations to justify doing it?

2. If the licensed anthrax vaccine is so safe and effective, why has the Army been trying to replace it for the past twenty-five years?

3. Since 1987, most of the new anthrax vaccine's prototypes have contained squalene. In 1998, the NIH formed the NIH Working Group with the FDA and DoD to "fast track" the licensing of the new anthrax vaccine. That year, squalene turned up in at least six lots of anthrax vaccine administered to U.S. troops around the world. What makes you think that's just a coincidence?

To all the jarheads reading this, one of my closest advisors is a retired marine Lt. Col. and Vietnam veteran; one of my nephews is a marine awaiting deployment to Iraq.

I'm concerned about medical experiments being run on my friends and my family; or any other marine, soldier, sailor or airman for that matter. As retired Army Colonel David H. Hackworth - the single most decorated officer from the Vietnam War - says about the information in VACCINE A "read it and weep; better yet get mad."

That's because what you don't know can hurt you.

Sincerely,
Gary Matsumoto
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Perseus Books Group Message Boards Forum Index -> Vaccine-A All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP